Male Rights?

Apparently, I’ve been too generous toward at least some members of my gender, thinking that they might just understand why women are less than thrilled with the various fashions in which they’ve been treated by men over the past several millennia.

No… apparently at least some men believe that they have the right to have sexual relations with women, and even the woman of their choice, regardless of whether she shares that desire. Three recent fatal attacks, including the Santa Fe High school shooting, have been motivated at least in part by such self-professed sentiments on the part of the attacker, and are fairly clear symptoms of what I can only term a new “hate group” – so far, only a subset of the Incel [involuntary celibate] movement.

As with a great many groups that feel themselves disenfranchised in one way or another, while most incels do feel like outcasts, the majority obviously haven’t resorted to killing and violence, but laying the blame on women isn’t going to solve their problems or resolve the situation. Neither is telling these (mostly young) men to “just get over it.” From the limited studies on them, most have lacked opportunities, strong positive male father figures, and decent educations.

Part of what’s behind this “movement” is the feeling by these men that in the past men did have access to women, especially for sex, and that such availability no longer exists, but throughout history groups of men, especially young men, and often large groups of them, have suffered involuntary celibacy. So have women, and in fact the term “Incel” was actually coined by a Canadian woman some twenty years ago.

But now online male Incel communities are showing up, and some are more than vocal and demeaning toward women, including voicing resentment at being denied “their God-given rights to have sex with women.” [Personally, I find it incredibly disturbing how various uses of force and weapons are being touted as being “God-given” rights.] Before it was banned and removed in November of 2017, Reddit had a subreddit entitled “Incels,” with more than 40,000 members of that subreddit.

As women as a group become more highly educated, more financially and socially independent, fewer and fewer will need to be subservient to men… and the Incel movement may only be the tip of the iceberg as a manifestation of male dissatisfaction in the way the world is changing. While violence isn’t the answer, neither is ignoring the situation until we’re facing more and more incidents such as the few that have recently occurred.

But then, since when have we reacted in any other way?

4 thoughts on “Male Rights?”

  1. Rural_Defender says:

    back in my high school days, what goes as ‘Incel’ was just the status of what us geeks/nerds were resigned to. We weren’t jocks, or the rich kids, or the popular kids. and yet, 20 years later, i don’t know any us of that aren’t married, or in a committed relationship.

    i’m not sure this isn’t just more “i want it now without having to work for it” but about sex/relationships, instead of success or something else.

    a more dangerous attitude certainly, but perhaps just a different “i want/deserve something” without working/putting the effort into it? successful relationships are work.

    but perhaps i’m wrong.

  2. R. Hamilton says:

    Publicly execute convicted rapists. (that would include those of both genders involved with underage persons)

    The basic solution to many behavioral problems: provide repeated demonstrations of severe consequences, for the individuals actually committing illegal acts (and leave everyone else alone). Parents should have taught that of course, but many haven’t (and may not have been taught themselves)…and they should probably be sterilized, and their kids put up for adoption with a strict requirement for appropriate (re)education, save that the due process needed to keep that from becoming arbitrary would get rather difficult.

  3. M. Kilian says:

    Incels have been present on the internet for at least the 15 years I’ve been browsing it and known as such, and it’s good to see that you know it doesn’t just apply to males. While the recent attacks have brought more public attention on such people, they are hardly new, and there have been men and women who share the belief that sexual intercourse is a human right and similar absurd ideas and discuss such on the internet for some time now. Before the aforementioned reddit board, there was (and still is) a board on 4chan called r9k, where misogynistic men and misandristic women (and also men who hate people of their own sex and vice versa with women) have inhabited for as long as I’ve been aware, discussing everything wrong with the a sex and exacting scathing insults upon eachother. Ironically, r9k has also been a place for people like this to meet up, sometimes resulting in successful relationships or sometimes simply in more fuel for the fire, so to speak.

    So they have existed for a while, but I don’t remember their status being used as reason for violence before. Lacking a bid in the future (i.e. no perceived chance at having children as a legacy) is a solid cause for the feeling of disenfranchisement, even though it may be short-sighted particularly for the young to assume such. I’m more worried that school shootings are becoming more common because these young people are now realising that the reason these shootings are able happen so often is because preemptive action against even some of the more blatant high-risk youths is not being enforced. I might be wrong in that observation, but I’d wager on our young antagonists perhaps thinking that.

    On another note, many sub-reddits that are less politically correct (or publicly acceptable) have been expunged from reddit as the website has become more well known by the public and discussed in the public sphere- similar to 4chan many years earlier, though image boards tend to prefer the “containment board” method to regulate discussion of unpopular but legal topics with large followings out of the more general discussion areas.

    In a similar vein, the ongoing development of robots as a step up from adult toys has sparked some interesting viewpoints and consequently accusations.

  4. S. Robinson says:

    I think rural_defender has hit the essence of the issue with the “something for nothing” aspect. I will admit that the first step “get a job and move out of the basement” is often vastly harder than anybody stuck in unemployment might expect, but it has to be overcome for many other reasons, so stick it out. Moving out can be worse, you might wind up having to get *another* job in a less expensive city, but having the first job makes the second job easy. Subsequent steps become vastly easier (you can now afford to wear acceptable clothes and finally walk a puppy in a public park). Incel status should come to an end.

    To be honest, the female side of the equation likely has it worse. To find them, try googling “lookism” or dig only slightly deep in the fat acceptance sites. While it is possible that becoming sufficiently sexy is beyond the basement dwellers of 4chan, it doesn’t seem likely (should they obtain the necessary job, apartment, clothes, and puppy), it may be too late for the fat acceptance girls (assuming the metabolism has adjusted to obesity and beyond) and anybody whinging about “lookism” may well require extensive surgery. Note that while these groups might demand people start sexually desiring people like them, they aren’t likely to spark any real violence (although they may well hurt even *more* people by convincing otherwise lonely women to ignore the health issues of gaining far too much weight. But that is a completely orthogonal issue).

    There exists a thing called “genetic attractiveness” (oddly enough, it comes up in the news in cases at least as controversial as this: typically unknowning siblings attracting each other like magnets). It is presumably possible to raise a generation of “more or less” humans that would each be highly attracted to a specific subset of humanity instead of all the guys/girls attracted to the head cheerleader/quarterback respectively. It also would have most of the drawbacks (and presumed “great society” advantages) of a general income: most of the drive for greatness is gone, along with the panic of failure.

    As far as “our birthright was taken from us” issue: no way guys. The guys (like Weinstein) that got away with rape for so long did it because they had the money and power to do so. They also could get laid *almost* as often as they did (I remain convinced that Weinstein insisted on sex *after* the actress “landed” the role because a casting-couch affair wouldn’t have the same rape-rush. It would be practically “business as usual” in Hollywood). Creeps like incels would be reported and arrested, or more likely shot by irate fathers/husbands and ignored by cops. They might get away with groping a waitress (an old coot must have been surprised how things changed when the cops recently showed up), but hardly more than that. Like many people who idolize the Middle Ages, they are mapping themselves into a social status nowhere close to what a true mapping would give them, nor the life they would have.

    I suspect R. Hamilton is suggesting an equally bygone era in execution, except perhaps by R. Hamilton becoming dictator and ordering it. Consensus seems to have been eliminated in the US, mostly by groups breaking into smaller and smaller echo chambers like the /reddit/incels or r9ks. Marketing loves such microniches as they can target *exactly* who they want with the message *what* they want. And if you blame ‘the internet’, you pretty much have to blame the advertizing that drives it (although this sight seems to exist only to advertize exceptionally good books). This thing has gone on for as long as radio formats break down into more and more specific genres and TV channels have done the same.

    Hopefully if the “sexbot” (or possibly using sex toys+VR headsets) doesn’t stop the real firebrands from stirring up trouble, it will at least limit the hunger of the other incels that might listen to them.

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